Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

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octavian
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:48 am

Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby octavian » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:00 pm

I’m a bit excited about my newest addition. I love the simplicity and beauty of the design; has a bit of an art-deco kind of feel. Nice and thin. Elegant. And it’s in great shape, keeping excellent time.
JLC Cal.449 RoseGold B.JPG
18 ct. rose gold, Caliber P449/3 Cbr. (Hand-Winding). According to Zaf’s great book, that makes it a Third Revision, Movement edges are beveled on both sides to accommodate the curved dial and case, and Spirale Breguent over-coil design. I believe the “P” refers to Parachoc shock protection.
Movement Nr. 490XXX, CaseNr.: 452230 Size: 35mm.without crown.
JLC Cal.449 RoseGold E.JPG
JLC Cal.449 RoseGold M.JPG
I’d be interested in any comments, observations, and experience with a Cal.449. I place its manufacture around the early 50’s. Is there a known model name? Can anyone (Zaf?) get more specific?

Forum members: tell me what you think…
Thanks.

zafbasha
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Re: Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby zafbasha » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:44 am

Seems that the dial is refinished, but other than that, it looks fine.

octavian
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:48 am

Re: Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby octavian » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:45 am

Zaf – I also thought about the possiblity of the watch having a refinished dial. Could be, it’s too clean. I would prefer original. But upon close inspection, I see a few signs of wear. Removed from the case, (see additional photo) and under magnification one can see case markings under the 6 and “swiss”. And the number 3 is somewhat worn. There is also a small blemish after the 4-index.
JLC Cal.449 RoseGold D.JPG
On the other hand, the index points for the numbers 1, 5, 10, and 11 are not 100% aligned with the painted sub-divisions in the circle. Do you know if this kind of “inconsistency” occurred in production in the 50’s?

Is there a way to defiantly determine: original dial or not?
And could you guess the year of manufacture?

Thanks for your feedback, which is always valued and appreciated.

zafbasha
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Re: Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby zafbasha » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:28 am

Original dials on these watches are never that good and most of these cal 4xx snap backs have had their dials redone.

The small details that are 'off' are a good indicator of the dil being refinished. I'm certain it's been refinished. I also see the print of the sub second area being slightly too high.

For the year, you can look it up in the book via the movement serial #, +/- 1 to 2 years.

rdenney
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:28 pm

Re: Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby rdenney » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:14 am

I have seen many examples of these where the markers were turned slightly and don't point perfectly to the minute track, even on clearly original dials.

Mine, for example:
JLC wrist close.jpg
The marker at 11, for example, is slightly turned, and doesn't line up.

This dial has not been refinished. Painted markers are original--I've studied them under a microscope.

The usual signs of a repainted dial include things like layers of paint, thick paint, misalignments that can't otherwise be explained, logos that look traced, complete lack of patina or oxidation, and so on, are better indicators, it seems to me, when it comes to this particular family of dials.

And, of course, photos almost always show some parallax error when the third dimension is involved. It's very difficult to align a camera at perfect right angles to the dial, but the photo may only show that misalignment in subtle ways. And that's not to mention the refractive effects of the crystal, including whatever scratches or changes of shape resulting from polishing that might be present, but unseen by the camera.

Rick "who can't tell from small pictures" Denney

octavian
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:48 am

Re: Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby octavian » Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:07 pm

Thanks for your comments and observations Rick. Gives me food for thought.
By the way, you have a beautiful watch!

Ilja
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby Ilja » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:55 pm

The print is not centered thats why there are little gaps between markers and chapter ring.
Thats a redone dial, good work but reprinted. Sorry.

octavian
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:48 am

Re: Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby octavian » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:41 am

Thanks Ilja. I'm not surprised if it's redone... really too clean for its age. The movement dates from roughly 1948-49. Probably put in case a year or two later. Still, I'm quite pleased with the watch. Runs beautifully.
Nice to hear from all the JLC fans. Greetings from Germany.

rdenney
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:28 pm

Re: Latest Addition: Jaeger LeCoultre Cal. 449 18 ct. Rose Gold

Postby rdenney » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:15 pm

Yes, on the enlarged photo, the printing is clearly off-centered--not just a case of markers that have become turned slightly.

Rick "who didn't notice that the photo could be enlarged" Denney


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